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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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hello and welcome to the skeptic zone

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episode number 206 for the 29th of sep

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tember 2012 Richard Saunders here with

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you from Sydney Australia glorious sunny

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windy cloudy no sunny and windy bit of

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wind sydney australia on this week's

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show we have a run sir give and his talk

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from tam in las vegas about census lim

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how friend ken harvey and the action the

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australian skeptics took and like-minded

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people in aiding ken harvey against

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lawsuits now ken is a consumer advocate

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a good skeptic a real friend of our side

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it's a cautionary tale to those who

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would sue us hmm a really good report

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congratulations to iran and it was yet

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another highlight from the amazing

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meeting in las vegas and look we all

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can't wait until the next amazing

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meeting in 2013 the James Randi

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Educational Foundation what a fantastic

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institution it is what a long and happy

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relationship the Australian skeptics

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have had with ear James Randi

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Educational Foundation and James Randi

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himself of course and yes tam 2013 which

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will be Tam 11 I think I saw somewhere

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online that's being held in July 2013

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was it the 11th of July that might need

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to be confirmed if you're thinking of

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going think no more start saving now

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especially if you're in Australia so

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many Australians go year after year I'm

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really impressed but I'm not surprised

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topline speakers great social

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opportunities good fun had by all I'm

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saving my pennies even now anyway we'll

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kick off the show with a Rancic f and

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following that it's

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may nod and change of pace for me know

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because Maenads been doing so much from

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some of the interview some time lately

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this week Maynard talks to a UFO hunter

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in Australia Dylan who runs a website or

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a facebook site Australian phenomenon

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looking for UFOs I thought it would be

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interesting to hear from sort of them

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someone with a different perspective

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shall we say UFOs in Australia's

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apparently we have them too after that

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it's penny Chan with a penny for your

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thoughts and recently penny went to the

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iig Awards the independent

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investigations group in Hollywood in

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Hollywood in California their awards

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night and PT went along as our reporter

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and I think the highlight of her report

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is she has a chat with Gary Stockdale

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now Gary Stockdale is a fantastic

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musician composer who works with Penn &

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Teller and in fact he scored he wrote

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the Penn & Teller theme for their show

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[\h__\h] which are we all enjoyed very

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so penny catches up with all sorts of

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people including composure Gary

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Stockdale and after pennies report we

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even get a track a fantastic track from

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Gary Stockdale called harmony so a bit

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of music a bit of a musical interlude in

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the skeptic zone and to round off the

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show I have a chat to a very good friend

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of ours from Melbourne postie Lindley

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Lindley who is on the subcommittee the

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organizing committee for the upcoming

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Australian skeptics convention in

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melbourne with of course James Randi and

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DJ Grothe and brian thompson and rebecca

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watson and dr. AG and Chrissy Wilson and

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the list goes on and on she'll tell us a

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little bit more fill us in on how it's

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all shaping up and I think there are

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probably by now less and 80 tickets left

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I'm not sure not many tickets left to go

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folks if you want to go to the

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Australian skeptics national convention

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will hear more a bit later on in the

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show well here in Sydney Australia its

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various oktoberfests are going around i

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noticed i might pop along to one maybe a

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bit later today I've got a very nice

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time for me at the moment 20 years ago I

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lived in Germany and I had lots of good

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friends over there one of my good

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friends he sent his son who's now come

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to visit oh boy where's the time go so

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I've got a great kid who's visiting at

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the moment he's about 19 years old and

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it's just amazing to think that after

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all these years the son of my friends

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are coming to visit its Wow time goes by

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folks time goes by it's all good that's

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how I think I'll run outside yeah I'll

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run outside and I'll find some nice

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Beck's beer enjoy a bit of German

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culture while you enjoy the skeptic

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let's all take this with a grain of salt

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he's around ticket thank you I would

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like to think that this is not actually

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a cautionary tale but rather maybe a bit

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of an uplifting tale because the story

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I'm going to tell you is about how the

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skeptical movement in Australia

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responded when a public health activist

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was sued for doing the right thing so

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before i start i have to tell you a few

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things about the regulatory framework in

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australia that controls medication and

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that requires a few acronyms so the

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first acronym is a triple see that's the

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Australian Competition and Consumer

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Commission that's an organization that

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is responsible for all consumer issues

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in the country I think it's roughly

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equivalent to the FTC in in America they

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have nothing specific specifically to do

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with health but any claim is made by

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anybody who sells any product are

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subject to the jurisdiction of the

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patriarchal see TGA is the Australian

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equivalent of the FDA it's the

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Therapeutic Goods Administration they

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regulate all all medicine and all

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medical claims in Australia the

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complaint resolution panel is a body

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that is affiliated or adjunctive to the

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TGA and they are in charge of

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investigating complaints related to

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advertising claims by sponsors of

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medical Goods registered by the TGA in

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the artg is the place where these things

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are registered with these products are

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registered is the Australian register or

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therapeutic goods and it has two

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different systems so the artg is not

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really one system one system is

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system that we all expect it's the

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system where medication is registered

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after going through several phases of

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trials you know animal trials in vitro

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trials then phase 1 phase 2 phase 3

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eventually approved for selling in using

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on humans and those medications

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sponsored usually by credible

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pharmaceuticals are obviously cost a lot

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of money to approve and they're

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registered by the on the artg under the

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system called aust are so they get an oz

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our number are four edges registered of

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course and they're just normal

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pharmaceuticals the other system is the

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listing system these are products that

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don't have to go through all of this

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long and arduous process the process

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that our products are listed on the ERG

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all they have to do is the sponsor of

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the product has to go on the atg a

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website and simply put a few bits of

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information about the product so that

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they have to say what the claims are

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then they have to say what ingredients

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they are in the product and they have to

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choose the ingredients from a

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pre-approved list of ingredients so

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these are ingredients that were judged

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by the TGA to be safe enough to not

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worry about so Safety's kind of looked

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at in terms of efficacy and also to some

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degree with regard to safety the TGA

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doesn't ask for the evidence what they

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ask is that you tick checkbox that says

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I have the evidence and but you don't

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have to show the evidence the thing is

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that the TGA over the lifetime of an

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average product there's there's a chance

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of twenty percent that a product will be

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audited so it's quite safe to say that

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you have the evidence even if you don't

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have it because the chance that you'll

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be caught is very very small so now to

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the product are we're talking about so a

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beginning of 2011 or maybe late 2010 a

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new product came on the market sensor

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slim I actually have a box here

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plus somebody gave it to me the day

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before I left for Vegas so this product

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came up with some of the sponsors for

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these products and slim came up with

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some amazing claims they claim that's

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it's the most effective slimming

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solution on the market today the the

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quotas comes from a paper at paper a

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white paper by dr. Matthew Kapaun who's

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supposedly the clinical director of the

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national obesity form in the UK we'll

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talk about dr. cape on more soon they

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say they said that it was clinically

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proven in a big study eleven thousand

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four hundred fifty three people in over

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100 countries supposedly included in a

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trial and the results were sensational

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eighty seven point two percent lost ten

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percent or more of their body weight i

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would say that i'm not sure that's that

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healthy but that was the claim anyway on

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the eighteenth of march 2011 dr. ken

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harvey who is a public health professor

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of public health in a public health

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advocate and a serial complainant about

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such products complained to the

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complaint resolution panel to the TGA

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and to the a triple c about this product

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what he said was that there is no

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evidence that works they have not

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presented evidence that it is unlikely

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to work he also looked up dr. Cape Horn

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who supposedly supposedly a credible

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doctor specialist and obesity and found

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no papers by dr. Cape Horn of anything

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to do with obesity let alone related to

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census limb then he looked at the white

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paper published by dr. K panini he

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looked very very suspicious I suspicious

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enough for came to claim that that it's

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a sham that it's not based on anything

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and the Institute that supposedly

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conducted that very large study of

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eleven thousand four hundred fifty-three

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people could not be found anywhere there

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were no there was no research based or

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that was credited to this Institute and

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there were also a few new administrative

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failures a month later since the slim

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soon can the soothing for eight hundred

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thousand dollars the reason they sodium

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is a in obscure clause in the laws or

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the regulations that the CRP operates

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under

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and this this section 42 zc aj to

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basically says that while a competi

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subject of a complaint is before a court

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the complaint resolution panel cannot

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deliberate or make a determination with

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regards to that complaint so that's

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where slap comes in because that was the

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whole idea slap as I'm sure many of you

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know is strategic litigation against

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public participation it's basically

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legal action with no attempt to win it's

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simply to stop the complainant from

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actually going ahead with the complaint

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so in a news letter that was sent by the

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company to their franchisees one of the

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directors said this deformation action

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which could be in the courts for a year

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or even longer basically gives us an

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ironclad protection that nobody can

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raise a complaint against senselessly

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into the CRP and hurt us it was very

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clear and plain by that but that that's

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what they were trying to do there was no

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attempt to win here they could not win

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because because in Australia truth in

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00:13:02,210 --> 00:12:59,490
public interest our defenses so Ken was

275
00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:02,220
bound to win but they were trying there

276
00:13:07,550 --> 00:13:03,330
were not trying to win what they were

277
00:13:10,970 --> 00:13:07,560
trying to do is delay then a few weeks

278
00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:10,980
later their story broke out a very

279
00:13:18,590 --> 00:13:15,650
respectable radio show the Health Report

280
00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:18,600
reported on it and it was a very

281
00:13:24,530 --> 00:13:21,330
favorable story they tried very hard not

282
00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:24,540
to not to raise the legal demons but

283
00:13:28,460 --> 00:13:26,970
they the reporting was very favorable

284
00:13:32,450 --> 00:13:28,470
and heat attracted the attention of many

285
00:13:35,090 --> 00:13:32,460
people including me now what happened

286
00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:35,100
following that is that things started to

287
00:13:39,740 --> 00:13:37,410
fall apart for census limb first of all

288
00:13:43,010 --> 00:13:39,750
dr. Cape Horn the scientific face of

289
00:13:44,329 --> 00:13:43,020
senselessly he resigned when he when he

290
00:13:48,530 --> 00:13:44,339
resigned he sent a letter to all the

291
00:13:51,020 --> 00:13:48,540
franchisees that he never saw the

292
00:13:53,319 --> 00:13:51,030
results of the study he never actually

293
00:13:56,109 --> 00:13:53,329
saw the study he wrote a white paper

294
00:13:59,590 --> 00:13:56,119
based on the claims that senselessly

295
00:14:04,030 --> 00:13:59,600
made on his big study and he has never

296
00:14:07,179 --> 00:14:04,040
seen this study a triple c at the same

297
00:14:08,919 --> 00:14:07,189
time soon census limb and froze their

298
00:14:11,410 --> 00:14:08,929
assets which meant that they could not

299
00:14:13,269 --> 00:14:11,420
pay their lawyers which meant that their

300
00:14:16,509 --> 00:14:13,279
lawyers resigned and the company went

301
00:14:17,590 --> 00:14:16,519
into administration company and

302
00:14:19,869 --> 00:14:17,600
administration is still an active

303
00:14:22,780 --> 00:14:19,879
company we have to remember that so the

304
00:14:25,989 --> 00:14:22,790
lawsuit against ken was going ahead the

305
00:14:28,710 --> 00:14:25,999
thing is slap has two sides to it who

306
00:14:31,389 --> 00:14:28,720
here knows what the Streisand effect is

307
00:14:33,850 --> 00:14:31,399
okay not not enough to skip this slide

308
00:14:35,769 --> 00:14:33,860
so basically the story is that Barbra

309
00:14:38,769 --> 00:14:35,779
Streisand sued some photographer who

310
00:14:40,989 --> 00:14:38,779
published a project online with photos

311
00:14:42,759 --> 00:14:40,999
of the over the California coastline it

312
00:14:44,799 --> 00:14:42,769
was it was nothing to do with her house

313
00:14:47,829 --> 00:14:44,809
it was to do with with the coastline but

314
00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:47,839
one of the photos of her house was seen

315
00:14:52,809 --> 00:14:49,730
and she sued him to remove that that

316
00:14:54,460 --> 00:14:52,819
photo and as a result the publicity that

317
00:14:56,949 --> 00:14:54,470
were generated meant that something like

318
00:14:59,889 --> 00:14:56,959
400,000 people within a few days went to

319
00:15:01,449 --> 00:14:59,899
that photo to see our house and that's

320
00:15:03,309 --> 00:15:01,459
known as the Streisand effect where

321
00:15:04,900 --> 00:15:03,319
you're trying to block something from

322
00:15:07,539 --> 00:15:04,910
becoming public or from gaining

323
00:15:09,150 --> 00:15:07,549
notoriety and you're having be your

324
00:15:12,009 --> 00:15:09,160
attempts are having the opposite effect

325
00:15:14,289 --> 00:15:12,019
so that's what happened very quickly a

326
00:15:17,499 --> 00:15:14,299
few slides of media in the few months

327
00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:17,509
that this this thing all went on and all

328
00:15:21,220 --> 00:15:19,970
of these all of this all of these things

329
00:15:24,009 --> 00:15:21,230
that I'm showing you now these are all

330
00:15:28,030 --> 00:15:24,019
positive supportive articles reporting

331
00:15:29,470 --> 00:15:28,040
favorably on Ken's story okay so it's

332
00:15:31,900 --> 00:15:29,480
quite a few of those as you can see this

333
00:15:35,259 --> 00:15:31,910
there's something like fifty stories in

334
00:15:37,629 --> 00:15:35,269
their thing is that it became clear

335
00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:37,639
quite quickly I called Ken when I heard

336
00:15:43,509 --> 00:15:40,850
the story on the radio I called Ken and

337
00:15:44,829 --> 00:15:43,519
asked him what's happening I've known of

338
00:15:47,319 --> 00:15:44,839
Ken I've heard of him but I've never

339
00:15:49,419 --> 00:15:47,329
spoken before but I called him and he

340
00:15:52,269 --> 00:15:49,429
said that he was by that stage just

341
00:15:54,309 --> 00:15:52,279
trying to get the stuff of this stuff

342
00:15:56,919 --> 00:15:54,319
out of court he was twelve thousand

343
00:16:00,400 --> 00:15:56,929
dollars out of pocket so I said can we

344
00:16:03,429 --> 00:16:00,410
do something to help he said I think

345
00:16:05,460 --> 00:16:03,439
I'll be fine and I said I think we'd

346
00:16:07,890 --> 00:16:05,470
like to help so

347
00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:07,900
he didn't know what what to actually say

348
00:16:13,650 --> 00:16:09,730
we were not going to spend twelve

349
00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:13,660
thousand dollars so I communicated with

350
00:16:16,950 --> 00:16:14,890
my colleagues and we decided that a

351
00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:16,960
pledge drive was the best thing to do so

352
00:16:20,700 --> 00:16:18,610
we started a pledge drive about a week

353
00:16:23,100 --> 00:16:20,710
later we can have later within the first

354
00:16:25,140 --> 00:16:23,110
three days we had pledges for eleven

355
00:16:26,730 --> 00:16:25,150
thousand dollars these are just pledges

356
00:16:28,020 --> 00:16:26,740
people haven't given their money yet but

357
00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:28,030
they've pledged eleven thousand dollars

358
00:16:32,850 --> 00:16:30,850
and by the end of june a month later we

359
00:16:34,590 --> 00:16:32,860
had pledges for twenty four thousand

360
00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:34,600
five hundred dollars which is quite

361
00:16:39,990 --> 00:16:37,090
incredible and they came in very very

362
00:16:42,510 --> 00:16:40,000
quickly now the case dragged on actually

363
00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:42,520
until August the 15th so it took a while

364
00:16:48,870 --> 00:16:46,570
longer eventually the motion to struck

365
00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:48,880
the case out was accepted by the court

366
00:16:54,060 --> 00:16:52,210
and ken was awarded costs except the

367
00:16:58,080 --> 00:16:54,070
liquidator of the company said we don't

368
00:16:59,220 --> 00:16:58,090
have money in the till to pay Ken so it

369
00:17:01,020 --> 00:16:59,230
was quite clear that despite the fact

370
00:17:02,420 --> 00:17:01,030
that he was awarded costs she was not

371
00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:02,430
actually going to be paid by the company

372
00:17:07,410 --> 00:17:05,410
in addition on the very same day that he

373
00:17:09,420 --> 00:17:07,420
won this one in New South Wales in the

374
00:17:11,130 --> 00:17:09,430
state of Queensland another director of

375
00:17:13,410 --> 00:17:11,140
the company filed suit for 1 million

376
00:17:15,330 --> 00:17:13,420
dollars I'm glad to say that that was

377
00:17:19,550 --> 00:17:15,340
defended pro bono by lawyers in

378
00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:19,560
Queensland and eventually struck out now

379
00:17:23,100 --> 00:17:21,850
we started collecting when he became

380
00:17:24,750 --> 00:17:23,110
clear that Kenny's not going to see a

381
00:17:26,700 --> 00:17:24,760
cent of it we started collecting and

382
00:17:28,770 --> 00:17:26,710
that was before the determination we

383
00:17:30,360 --> 00:17:28,780
knew by mid-july we already knew that

384
00:17:32,550 --> 00:17:30,370
Kim was going to be out of pocket if we

385
00:17:36,060 --> 00:17:32,560
don't do something so we started the

386
00:17:39,630 --> 00:17:36,070
collection and of the 26,500 that were

387
00:17:42,780 --> 00:17:39,640
pledged I by that stage all about 500

388
00:17:45,150 --> 00:17:42,790
were actually paid the 500 word paper

389
00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:45,160
not by people just deciding not she did

390
00:17:48,540 --> 00:17:47,530
we just it was wrong email addresses a

391
00:17:50,550 --> 00:17:48,550
couple of people with the wrong email

392
00:17:54,090 --> 00:17:50,560
addresses and we couldn't get in touch

393
00:17:57,300 --> 00:17:54,100
with him donations ranged from ten

394
00:17:58,320 --> 00:17:57,310
dollars to two thousand dollars I think

395
00:18:01,040 --> 00:17:58,330
one average there were like fifty

396
00:18:04,500 --> 00:18:01,050
dollars and everybody paid basically

397
00:18:05,970 --> 00:18:04,510
12,000 more was paid by I was collected

398
00:18:09,050 --> 00:18:05,980
from further requests so we said look

399
00:18:12,090 --> 00:18:09,060
this is not enough Australian skeptics

400
00:18:13,890 --> 00:18:12,100
organization costs we did not actually

401
00:18:16,140 --> 00:18:13,900
donate a huge amount of money but we

402
00:18:17,490 --> 00:18:16,150
covered all the costs of the collection

403
00:18:18,780 --> 00:18:17,500
so we made sure that all

404
00:18:20,940 --> 00:18:18,790
all the money that was donated actually

405
00:18:22,590 --> 00:18:20,950
went to Ken you know credit card fees

406
00:18:25,290 --> 00:18:22,600
paypal all these things that we covered

407
00:18:27,810 --> 00:18:25,300
all of that and 3500 was donated by

408
00:18:29,820 --> 00:18:27,820
choice choice is the equivalent of

409
00:18:31,890 --> 00:18:29,830
Consumer Reports is a very respectable

410
00:18:34,230 --> 00:18:31,900
magazine in Australia that deals with

411
00:18:36,690 --> 00:18:34,240
Consumer Affairs and Ken did not pay a

412
00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:36,700
cent which was a great achievement is

413
00:18:49,500 --> 00:18:46,800
seven-point I met Ken just just before

414
00:18:51,210 --> 00:18:49,510
this and and Ken said look we were a few

415
00:18:52,230 --> 00:18:51,220
that I something like three thousand

416
00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:52,240
dollars or the four thousand dollars

417
00:18:56,010 --> 00:18:54,730
short and I said can you know we're

418
00:18:57,420 --> 00:18:56,020
still a four thousand dollars short we

419
00:19:00,390 --> 00:18:57,430
still continuing he said you know it's

420
00:19:04,100 --> 00:19:00,400
okay you know i'm i'm going to pay this

421
00:19:06,750 --> 00:19:04,110
and i said Ken this isn't about you I

422
00:19:09,810 --> 00:19:06,760
you are not allowed to pay a single cent

423
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:09,820
you can't pay a single cent because we

424
00:19:13,770 --> 00:19:11,410
want to send a very strong message here

425
00:19:15,330 --> 00:19:13,780
and I think we did I think we did so in

426
00:19:17,730 --> 00:19:15,340
summary you know the costs and took

427
00:19:22,860 --> 00:19:17,740
Ken's cost for 42,000 in excess of forty

428
00:19:27,270 --> 00:19:22,870
two thousand dollars but we paid all of

429
00:19:29,190 --> 00:19:27,280
it of course ken says he he talks about

430
00:19:30,930 --> 00:19:29,200
this very often in all kinds of forums

431
00:19:33,030 --> 00:19:30,940
and he says many times that he could not

432
00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:33,040
have done this without the financial and

433
00:19:36,750 --> 00:19:34,450
moral support that he received from this

434
00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:36,760
chemical movement and I think that's

435
00:19:40,650 --> 00:19:37,930
really important because Kenny's

436
00:19:41,790 --> 00:19:40,660
continuing to do this he's continuing to

437
00:19:44,010 --> 00:19:41,800
do this I'll mention something with

438
00:19:45,570 --> 00:19:44,020
regard to that in a moment but we sent a

439
00:19:48,300 --> 00:19:45,580
very strong message to cracks out there

440
00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:48,310
that we are not pushovers you're going

441
00:19:53,730 --> 00:19:50,730
to threaten us we're going to push back

442
00:19:55,230 --> 00:19:53,740
so what's happened since sense Aslam was

443
00:19:56,550 --> 00:19:55,240
removed from the air 2g but it took a

444
00:19:58,650 --> 00:19:56,560
long time because that's the way the

445
00:20:01,710 --> 00:19:58,660
regulatory system works it continued to

446
00:20:03,180 --> 00:20:01,720
be sold in the UK for a while on in

447
00:20:05,460 --> 00:20:03,190
mid-november we had our national

448
00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:05,470
conference in Sydney and I managed

449
00:20:09,750 --> 00:20:07,930
through some political maneuvering to

450
00:20:13,020 --> 00:20:09,760
get the head of the TGA the second

451
00:20:16,380 --> 00:20:13,030
commandment a Triple C together with Ken

452
00:20:18,060 --> 00:20:16,390
in a panel moderated by choice what I

453
00:20:20,490 --> 00:20:18,070
the thing is when I got the guys from

454
00:20:21,690 --> 00:20:20,500
the TGA they took will see on board I

455
00:20:24,450 --> 00:20:21,700
didn't tell them ken was going to be

456
00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:24,460
there they he didn't make their life

457
00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:26,290
very easy but it was a very very good

458
00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:28,450
panel and the day before Peter Foster

459
00:20:32,460 --> 00:20:30,610
who was the conman very famous common in

460
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:32,470
Australia who was the rest he was

461
00:20:36,780 --> 00:20:34,930
charged with very similar fraud in the

462
00:20:38,850 --> 00:20:36,790
past in he was the guy behind this

463
00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:38,860
company he was arrested the day before

464
00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:40,330
our confidence and we joked that it was

465
00:20:46,470 --> 00:20:44,530
very hard to arrange that ken on during

466
00:20:48,540 --> 00:20:46,480
our convention won the award that we

467
00:20:50,220 --> 00:20:48,550
call the fernet award for the promotion

468
00:20:52,500 --> 00:20:50,230
of reason or the fred was named after

469
00:20:55,890 --> 00:20:52,510
Fred Thor net it's a very prestigious

470
00:20:58,440 --> 00:20:55,900
award by Australian skeptics

471
00:21:00,720 --> 00:20:58,450
he deserved it of course the section

472
00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:00,730
that prevents CRP from determining on

473
00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:02,530
things that are standing before the

474
00:21:06,750 --> 00:21:04,570
court was amended to within an inch of

475
00:21:09,900 --> 00:21:06,760
its life and while it still has some

476
00:21:12,360 --> 00:21:09,910
limitations the CRP are now able to make

477
00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:12,370
determinations regarding things that are

478
00:21:21,450 --> 00:21:19,690
available and indeed they have because

479
00:21:25,350 --> 00:21:21,460
there's a new threat can complain about

480
00:21:27,300 --> 00:21:25,360
a product called undo it it's aight i'll

481
00:21:30,030 --> 00:21:27,310
spare you you know based on the name i'm

482
00:21:32,670 --> 00:21:30,040
sure you know what it means so there's

483
00:21:35,490 --> 00:21:32,680
an e client he made a complaint to the

484
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:35,500
CRP and despite the fact that the

485
00:21:39,780 --> 00:21:37,210
company threatened to complain

486
00:21:42,270 --> 00:21:39,790
threatened to sue him the cfp made a

487
00:21:45,150 --> 00:21:42,280
determination that justified his claims

488
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:45,160
and one thing that i want to say if

489
00:21:49,890 --> 00:21:46,810
anybody from and do it is here in the

490
00:21:53,850 --> 00:21:49,900
audience if under its soup can we will

491
00:22:01,389 --> 00:21:53,860
crush them I'm not joking we will trust

492
00:22:08,869 --> 00:22:03,709
we do have time for a couple questions

493
00:22:10,580 --> 00:22:08,879
any questions if you eat something you

494
00:22:13,909 --> 00:22:10,590
take something it undoes the effect of

495
00:22:15,349 --> 00:22:13,919
eating it so it's corny awful oh no it's

496
00:22:21,289 --> 00:22:15,359
anti pregnancy drug that's what i

497
00:22:22,729 --> 00:22:21,299
thought it was no it's not it's not a

498
00:22:29,959 --> 00:22:22,739
morning-after pill it's a morning-after

499
00:22:44,989 --> 00:22:29,969
pill for boot for hamburgers any further

500
00:22:47,299 --> 00:22:44,999
questions let's think her again hey

501
00:22:49,129 --> 00:22:47,309
Barry yes Rebecca Barry has some

502
00:22:51,739 --> 00:22:49,139
concerns about psych on you know it's

503
00:22:54,529 --> 00:22:51,749
coming up soon October 25th to 28th and

504
00:22:56,930 --> 00:22:54,539
as you recall I was there last year yes

505
00:22:58,940 --> 00:22:56,940
and I had a great time but I heard a

506
00:23:01,399 --> 00:22:58,950
rumor that this year there will not be a

507
00:23:03,349 --> 00:23:01,409
fancy apple bar well right now Rebecca I

508
00:23:05,239 --> 00:23:03,359
do not have an apple bar planned I will

509
00:23:07,639 --> 00:23:05,249
be honest with you Barry why why should

510
00:23:09,229 --> 00:23:07,649
I go you should go Rebecca because some

511
00:23:10,549 --> 00:23:09,239
of the biggest names and skepticism are

512
00:23:12,859 --> 00:23:10,559
going to be there Michael like who like

513
00:23:15,049 --> 00:23:12,869
well to start off Richard Wiseman he's

514
00:23:17,989 --> 00:23:15,059
our emcee for the event people like

515
00:23:20,289 --> 00:23:17,999
Chris Mooney and javis contest David

516
00:23:23,539 --> 00:23:20,299
Gorski Jon Ronson who i think you know

517
00:23:25,700 --> 00:23:23,549
Elizabeth Loftus kilt avarice Eugenie

518
00:23:27,469 --> 00:23:25,710
Scott John Nichol been radford Steve

519
00:23:29,149 --> 00:23:27,479
novella I mean they keep flooding my

520
00:23:30,979 --> 00:23:29,159
mind how many these great people in

521
00:23:32,959 --> 00:23:30,989
coming skeptics are gonna be there

522
00:23:35,389 --> 00:23:32,969
skeptics guide to the universe of doing

523
00:23:37,659 --> 00:23:35,399
a live broadcast what else do you need

524
00:23:40,129 --> 00:23:37,669
well bury your enthusiasm is infectious

525
00:23:42,979 --> 00:23:40,139
however what else have you got come on

526
00:23:45,409 --> 00:23:42,989
what else what else well like like last

527
00:23:46,669 --> 00:23:45,419
year we're doing a costume party okay I

528
00:23:48,529 --> 00:23:46,679
did have a lot of fun with that last

529
00:23:50,810 --> 00:23:48,539
year yes hmm we're also doing a blood

530
00:23:52,999 --> 00:23:50,820
drive vampire blood drive I think ah

531
00:23:56,269 --> 00:23:53,009
fits the theme to the name Halloween yes

532
00:23:57,889 --> 00:23:56,279
we also have the local astronomy club in

533
00:23:59,149 --> 00:23:57,899
Nashville becoming setting up their

534
00:24:01,729 --> 00:23:59,159
telescopes we're doing a thing called

535
00:24:03,979 --> 00:24:01,739
starry starry night is it is it good you

536
00:24:06,919 --> 00:24:03,989
know no not not enough no that was a

537
00:24:09,409 --> 00:24:06,929
really great apple fire well how about

538
00:24:12,229 --> 00:24:09,419
this we're doing a honky tonk bus trip

539
00:24:13,910 --> 00:24:12,239
to the bars downtown a what bus trip

540
00:24:17,090 --> 00:24:13,920
honky tonk never say that again

541
00:24:19,310 --> 00:24:17,100
never don't say it again look the Apple

542
00:24:21,740 --> 00:24:19,320
bar was like a crucial part of my diet

543
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:21,750
last year Rebecca you know we having in

544
00:24:29,060 --> 00:24:25,170
an authentic Tennessee Nashville BBQ

545
00:24:31,850 --> 00:24:29,070
event open barbecue plenty of pork and

546
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:31,860
beef and chicken and Barry I'm a

547
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:35,970
vegetarian vegetarian well do you know

548
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:38,010
Rebecca we're also having a moonshine

549
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:40,650
tasting event I'll be there for more

550
00:24:44,300 --> 00:24:42,450
information on psych on the conference

551
00:24:46,610 --> 00:24:44,310
dedicated the science and skeptical

552
00:24:48,430 --> 00:24:46,620
inquiry happening this October 25th

553
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:48,440
through the 28th in Nashville Tennessee

554
00:25:06,450 --> 00:24:56,690
visit CSI conference org here's my not

555
00:25:12,009 --> 00:25:10,060
whoo and I was at Dillon yep hey now

556
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:12,019
Dylan you and a group of other people

557
00:25:16,180 --> 00:25:13,129
have got to give you a great Facebook

558
00:25:18,700 --> 00:25:16,190
page called Australian phenomenon yep

559
00:25:20,470 --> 00:25:18,710
and why just rang to ask you because

560
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:20,480
you've seen some curious things in you

561
00:25:24,940 --> 00:25:22,490
what what suddenly interested you in

562
00:25:26,379 --> 00:25:24,950
looking at the sky and have you been

563
00:25:30,039 --> 00:25:26,389
looking at the sky and what have you

564
00:25:32,710 --> 00:25:30,049
guys seen well my friend Alexi got me

565
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:32,720
into it uh-oh one day he was talking

566
00:25:37,659 --> 00:25:34,490
about extraterrestrials and I was a bit

567
00:25:39,460 --> 00:25:37,669
skeptic at the time but I'm yeah I went

568
00:25:42,279 --> 00:25:39,470
outside for the first time to look at

569
00:25:44,499 --> 00:25:42,289
the sky for that reason and I started

570
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:44,509
noticing some really strange light all

571
00:25:47,619 --> 00:25:46,129
right like what sorts of things because

572
00:25:50,769 --> 00:25:47,629
there's plenty of unusual lights in the

573
00:25:53,409 --> 00:25:50,779
sky and how how were you viewing them at

574
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:53,419
first I saw three lights in a triangle

575
00:25:57,460 --> 00:25:55,610
formation and because my parents used to

576
00:26:00,039 --> 00:25:57,470
be ghost hunters I use their night

577
00:26:02,350 --> 00:26:00,049
vision equipment well how this is not it

578
00:26:03,759 --> 00:26:02,360
is it so you've got a history of augie

579
00:26:06,249 --> 00:26:03,769
boogie in the background there with the

580
00:26:10,239 --> 00:26:06,259
parent yeah hey so have you actually

581
00:26:11,499 --> 00:26:10,249
heard an EVP yes I have well and and how

582
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:11,509
do you find them do you find their

583
00:26:18,159 --> 00:26:13,490
convincing or they or they more like

584
00:26:20,529 --> 00:26:18,169
audio pareidolia well EVP I've seen a

585
00:26:23,379 --> 00:26:20,539
couple of videos and how people thought

586
00:26:26,649 --> 00:26:23,389
it I all reckon that it is there is

587
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:26,659
something there look okay now we're

588
00:26:30,310 --> 00:26:28,129
getting on to go see but let's get back

589
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:30,320
to what you land what sort of equipment

590
00:26:33,519 --> 00:26:31,490
you said they were you looking at

591
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:33,529
through the night vision equipment what

592
00:26:37,330 --> 00:26:34,970
is it what's a design to do as a Fed

593
00:26:39,489 --> 00:26:37,340
design for animal stuff at night what's

594
00:26:42,970 --> 00:26:39,499
what is it um yeah it's got multiple

595
00:26:46,049 --> 00:26:42,980
purposes you can use of animals or scar

596
00:26:49,029 --> 00:26:46,059
watching it sort of amplifies the light

597
00:26:52,090 --> 00:26:49,039
the surrounding light that you have it

598
00:26:53,289 --> 00:26:52,100
amplifies it and increases it well one

599
00:26:55,419 --> 00:26:53,299
of the things I've always found that if

600
00:26:58,419 --> 00:26:55,429
you are looking for unusual phenomena

601
00:26:59,950 --> 00:26:58,429
the fastest way not to find it is

602
00:27:02,200 --> 00:26:59,960
actually go looking for it no you

603
00:27:05,549 --> 00:27:02,210
normally sort of happens accidentally so

604
00:27:08,919 --> 00:27:05,559
you must have been a bit lucky yeah and

605
00:27:10,570 --> 00:27:08,929
what direction were you looking I was

606
00:27:14,130 --> 00:27:10,580
looking I usually look in the South

607
00:27:16,530 --> 00:27:14,140
because the good old Southern Cross but

608
00:27:18,900 --> 00:27:16,540
and also whenever people do see

609
00:27:20,100 --> 00:27:18,910
something unusual like you've seen how

610
00:27:22,350 --> 00:27:20,110
do you go about sharing this information

611
00:27:25,020 --> 00:27:22,360
because like most people like you know I

612
00:27:28,020 --> 00:27:25,030
don't know what you know like that yeah

613
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:28,030
well I've loaded on youtube and just let

614
00:27:33,870 --> 00:27:31,210
the viewers comment see what they think

615
00:27:35,610 --> 00:27:33,880
about it well that's a sure way to start

616
00:27:39,300 --> 00:27:35,620
a fire storm in the comments section how

617
00:27:41,810 --> 00:27:39,310
did it go it has been a bit of a bit of

618
00:27:44,550 --> 00:27:41,820
a firestorm every now and then but yeah

619
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:44,560
how do you go about this do the picket

620
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:46,210
time a night that you go out and you go

621
00:27:50,610 --> 00:27:47,530
for a couple of hours you go out with

622
00:27:51,930 --> 00:27:50,620
friends is sometimes I goes friends most

623
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:51,940
of the sightings happen when you're on

624
00:27:59,280 --> 00:27:54,970
your own funny enough yeah I usually got

625
00:28:00,630 --> 00:27:59,290
at 62 about 8pm what is the best plastic

626
00:28:02,340 --> 00:28:00,640
one you reckon you've been able to

627
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:02,350
capture on some sort of film or video

628
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:05,290
well there was two lights that were

629
00:28:08,700 --> 00:28:07,210
following each other and I was eating a

630
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:08,710
chicken schnitzel at the time and

631
00:28:17,370 --> 00:28:14,170
everybody knows me sat on a minute so so

632
00:28:18,870 --> 00:28:17,380
you're thinking the chicken schnitzel

633
00:28:21,260 --> 00:28:18,880
guy must have been drinking but no

634
00:28:24,660 --> 00:28:21,270
you're eating a chicken schnitzel yeah

635
00:28:27,180 --> 00:28:24,670
that's cool and did you miss it I know I

636
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:27,190
recorded it okay now where can we see

637
00:28:30,900 --> 00:28:28,570
these because I would like to have a

638
00:28:33,120 --> 00:28:30,910
look at them online um well you go on

639
00:28:34,380 --> 00:28:33,130
youtube and type in Australian

640
00:28:36,420 --> 00:28:34,390
phenomenon it comes up with all the

641
00:28:38,820 --> 00:28:36,430
videos okay so you've got your own

642
00:28:40,890 --> 00:28:38,830
channel layer yeah yeah that sounds cool

643
00:28:42,330 --> 00:28:40,900
I have you had any astronomers or

644
00:28:43,470 --> 00:28:42,340
scientists have a bit of a look at that

645
00:28:45,750 --> 00:28:43,480
and try and guess what you've actually

646
00:28:47,340 --> 00:28:45,760
got there uh yeah there is actually a

647
00:28:49,620 --> 00:28:47,350
stronger where I'm staying and yeah he

648
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:49,630
had a look at the videos and he was

649
00:28:54,330 --> 00:28:51,490
baffled by some of the footage that I

650
00:28:56,670 --> 00:28:54,340
was captured yes now let's just go to

651
00:28:58,880 --> 00:28:56,680
the extreme end of it there and in and

652
00:29:01,470 --> 00:28:58,890
what what do you think you're seeing

653
00:29:03,510 --> 00:29:01,480
well I'm not too sure like I don't jump

654
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:03,520
to conclusions straight away I just just

655
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:05,650
upload it because it's an celestial

656
00:29:11,910 --> 00:29:09,250
event you know 5050 I sort of go with

657
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:11,920
what the people say and what do you

658
00:29:15,420 --> 00:29:13,810
think makes what do you seem so sure

659
00:29:16,590 --> 00:29:15,430
that it's not actually something natural

660
00:29:20,790 --> 00:29:16,600
going on up there or you're not really

661
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:20,800
sure that I guess and and what's your

662
00:29:23,190 --> 00:29:22,210
facebook page again because I think this

663
00:29:24,390 --> 00:29:23,200
is the kind of thing people would like

664
00:29:26,700 --> 00:29:24,400
to get involved in a bit of a discussion

665
00:29:28,980 --> 00:29:26,710
about yeah it's

666
00:29:31,620 --> 00:29:28,990
Australian phenomena on facebook fan

667
00:29:33,060 --> 00:29:31,630
page and what is that now what now let

668
00:29:34,769 --> 00:29:33,070
us know what equipment you've been using

669
00:29:36,570 --> 00:29:34,779
to so we've got stuff lying around the

670
00:29:38,340 --> 00:29:36,580
house or we have parents at were ghost

671
00:29:39,930 --> 00:29:38,350
hunters like you do we can get our own

672
00:29:43,799 --> 00:29:39,940
set up there how do you normally set it

673
00:29:45,630 --> 00:29:43,809
up at night well I use a tripod and at

674
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:45,640
first I started using the sony handycam

675
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:48,010
the one that takes eight millimeter tape

676
00:29:53,279 --> 00:29:50,970
because they've got good light

677
00:29:55,830 --> 00:29:53,289
sensitivity on the lens so you can view

678
00:29:57,539 --> 00:29:55,840
a lot of bright objects at night because

679
00:30:00,510 --> 00:29:57,549
when you use a high-definition camera

680
00:30:02,610 --> 00:30:00,520
nowadays the ISO isn't that good you

681
00:30:04,950 --> 00:30:02,620
can't really see the sky but that's

682
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:04,960
right the the last generation of the

683
00:30:12,570 --> 00:30:07,330
super high 8 tapes were actually pretty

684
00:30:14,610 --> 00:30:12,580
good yeah yeah and so and have you taken

685
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:14,620
this to anyone that is an expert in the

686
00:30:20,430 --> 00:30:16,450
field of graphics to have a bit of a

687
00:30:21,870 --> 00:30:20,440
look at it I know I haven't actually we

688
00:30:23,909 --> 00:30:21,880
might have a look at your website and

689
00:30:25,409 --> 00:30:23,919
speak to a few people and see what they

690
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:25,419
think of the whole thing and once again

691
00:30:28,529 --> 00:30:27,130
what's the main website to catch you

692
00:30:31,769 --> 00:30:28,539
guys so people can have a chat to you

693
00:30:35,370 --> 00:30:31,779
about what they think there's a Facebook

694
00:30:37,289 --> 00:30:35,380
fan page or John do you prefer the

695
00:30:39,899 --> 00:30:37,299
facebook fan page ok cool that's

696
00:30:42,419 --> 00:30:39,909
Australian phenomenon yeah and you guys

697
00:30:45,330 --> 00:30:42,429
are based in wa you're in east perth

698
00:30:47,399 --> 00:30:45,340
there and you reckon perth is becoming

699
00:30:49,350 --> 00:30:47,409
more of a UFO hotspot or not cuz you

700
00:30:50,909 --> 00:30:49,360
know yeah i mean because it's pretty

701
00:30:53,340 --> 00:30:50,919
good in the outback you got to work hard

702
00:30:55,049 --> 00:30:53,350
to beat the outback yeah yeah cuz of the

703
00:30:57,630 --> 00:30:55,059
light pollution yeah it's a lot of cuz i

704
00:30:59,399 --> 00:30:57,640
used to live in the suburbs and um I

705
00:31:02,130 --> 00:30:59,409
mean to each person I noticed that you

706
00:31:04,230 --> 00:31:02,140
could see hardly any stars and I sort of

707
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:04,240
felt like I really depressed about that

708
00:31:09,330 --> 00:31:07,210
but um then when I was sitting outside I

709
00:31:11,700 --> 00:31:09,340
actually noticed this green thing shoot

710
00:31:13,019 --> 00:31:11,710
out on an angle I jumped out of my chair

711
00:31:15,450 --> 00:31:13,029
was like well I didn't expect to see

712
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:15,460
that in this kind of life solution Wow

713
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:18,610
so could you describe the buzz you get

714
00:31:24,930 --> 00:31:20,610
when you see that kind of anomaly oh

715
00:31:26,940 --> 00:31:24,940
well the buzz is like betrayal and sheer

716
00:31:29,159 --> 00:31:26,950
adrenaline like going through your

717
00:31:30,810 --> 00:31:29,169
entire body and you're just so excited

718
00:31:33,750 --> 00:31:30,820
and so scared at the same time it's a

719
00:31:35,039 --> 00:31:33,760
mixture look hey Dylan thanks for trying

720
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:35,049
to us and how your parents been about

721
00:31:38,190 --> 00:31:36,610
the whole thing they're going on look we

722
00:31:39,990 --> 00:31:38,200
try to bring him up to be interested in

723
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:40,000
ghosts and he goes up in this UFO

724
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:42,490
thing what kind of a son alia yeah oh

725
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:44,410
yeah there's if Fred and I'm proud of

726
00:32:12,950 --> 00:31:46,930
him yes look Dylan thank you very much

727
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:15,810
the skeptic magazine the journal from

728
00:32:21,150 --> 00:32:18,970
Australian skeptics subscribe online to

729
00:32:25,740 --> 00:32:21,160
the world's second oldest skeptical

730
00:32:29,070 --> 00:32:25,750
magazine visit w WC apx calm day you and

731
00:32:32,670 --> 00:32:29,080
click the publication's league you can

732
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:32,680
also find their over 30 years on back

733
00:33:00,060 --> 00:32:36,010
issues free to download the skeptic

734
00:33:14,070 --> 00:33:04,200
is penny Chen with a penny for your

735
00:33:18,670 --> 00:33:16,270
September tenth was the independent

736
00:33:20,860 --> 00:33:18,680
investigation groups sixth annual awards

737
00:33:23,049 --> 00:33:20,870
held at the steve allen theater inside

738
00:33:24,970 --> 00:33:23,059
the los angeles center for inquiry the

739
00:33:28,270 --> 00:33:24,980
show featured hilarious presenters Matt

740
00:33:30,610 --> 00:33:28,280
kirshen Kelly Carlin Ron Lynch and Ray

741
00:33:33,220 --> 00:33:30,620
Emery and Frank Conniff as well as the

742
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:33,230
musical talents of Gary Stockdale this

743
00:33:37,290 --> 00:33:35,090
year the group award shows south park

744
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:37,300
the big bang theory through the wormhole

745
00:33:42,790 --> 00:33:40,250
website snopes com musician Tim Minchin

746
00:33:45,100 --> 00:33:42,800
and astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson

747
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:45,110
many honorees were unfortunately not

748
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:46,970
able to attend the ceremony but

749
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:48,530
afterwards I chatted with some of the

750
00:33:53,650 --> 00:33:51,770
characters in attendance so I'm standing

751
00:33:58,360 --> 00:33:53,660
here with one of the recipients of one

752
00:34:01,210 --> 00:33:58,370
of tonight's awards Jim Turner now Jim

753
00:34:04,330 --> 00:34:01,220
you won the accepted the award tonight

754
00:34:09,369 --> 00:34:04,340
on behalf of Bill Brady because you are

755
00:34:12,100 --> 00:34:09,379
bill Brady's poker buddy yes I had no

756
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:12,110
idea we had such celebrities in our

757
00:34:18,730 --> 00:34:16,970
midst huge i'm a huge celebrity and that

758
00:34:21,010 --> 00:34:18,740
really was the only reason that I

759
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:21,020
accepted the award was it it was I know

760
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:24,530
bill and I play poker with Bill and I

761
00:34:31,720 --> 00:34:27,290
could jeweled bill and badgered him to

762
00:34:35,230 --> 00:34:31,730
put me in one episode that was the 100th

763
00:34:38,020 --> 00:34:35,240
episode right yes so um and you played a

764
00:34:41,909 --> 00:34:38,030
priest in a dream sequence yes I played

765
00:34:44,740 --> 00:34:41,919
a priest who is marrying Leonard and

766
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:44,750
what's the woman's name the character

767
00:34:50,260 --> 00:34:47,570
named galley and at the end of the

768
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:50,270
episode and I just I marry them and then

769
00:34:54,639 --> 00:34:52,490
it's a then it's a dream sequence do you

770
00:34:59,380 --> 00:34:54,649
have a line like what's your line oh do

771
00:35:02,530 --> 00:34:59,390
you Leonard Jake her to be your lawfully

772
00:35:04,720 --> 00:35:02,540
wedded wife and where it was it method

773
00:35:07,090 --> 00:35:04,730
acting did you only answer to father I

774
00:35:10,450 --> 00:35:07,100
had to go be a priest for a couple years

775
00:35:12,099 --> 00:35:10,460
to learn this I was also a voiceover

776
00:35:16,569 --> 00:35:12,109
into

777
00:35:20,559 --> 00:35:16,579
episodes i was i was a guy who was

778
00:35:23,559 --> 00:35:20,569
announcing the nobel prizes but that was

779
00:35:26,289 --> 00:35:23,569
just a voiceover and then I was a guy in

780
00:35:29,019 --> 00:35:26,299
a movie theater there watching a movie

781
00:35:33,700 --> 00:35:29,029
and I was the male voice in the movie

782
00:35:38,170 --> 00:35:33,710
thank you so much for coming tonight it

783
00:35:40,870 --> 00:35:38,180
was awesome to see you so until bill

784
00:35:42,460 --> 00:35:40,880
next time they better be here I well I'm

785
00:35:46,720 --> 00:35:42,470
going to give him his award maybe yeah

786
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:46,730
maybe I'll just keep it a huge fan of

787
00:35:53,049 --> 00:35:50,930
this show okay we are supposed to be a

788
00:35:55,539 --> 00:35:53,059
skeptic and im doing tarot card readings

789
00:36:03,849 --> 00:35:55,549
and people are actually enjoying I would

790
00:36:07,739 --> 00:36:03,859
love to see you do a trick oh good ok so

791
00:36:10,450 --> 00:36:07,749
these ESP cards you know at ESPN zone no

792
00:36:12,220 --> 00:36:10,460
you don't wait are they try to decide

793
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:12,230
discover a few hunches these are the

794
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:13,970
real thing these were used by the Duke

795
00:36:20,870 --> 00:36:15,690
University

796
00:36:23,660 --> 00:36:20,880
testing ESP right back in the 1940s so

797
00:36:28,240 --> 00:36:23,670
what it is is it's a pack of cards take

798
00:36:34,730 --> 00:36:30,470
these are the real thing you buy those

799
00:36:38,660 --> 00:36:34,740
ebay I've had them I had them from my

800
00:36:41,930 --> 00:36:38,670
magic days now take that card and look

801
00:36:45,420 --> 00:36:41,940
at right but don't show to me

802
00:36:56,370 --> 00:36:45,430
right now I got it yes ok so now the

803
00:37:02,890 --> 00:37:00,820
yes it was so your name is Gary dr.

804
00:37:05,050 --> 00:37:02,900
Stockdale okay I'm afraid we've never

805
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:05,060
met before you look just like Geoffrey

806
00:37:09,190 --> 00:37:06,770
Rush has anyone ever told you that very

807
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:09,200
nice of you to say appreciate it yes

808
00:37:13,690 --> 00:37:11,690
people have told me so you did a

809
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:13,700
fabulous job tonight as the resident

810
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:15,890
musician thank you very much so are you

811
00:37:21,910 --> 00:37:19,370
a full-time musician yes I I they didn't

812
00:37:24,370 --> 00:37:21,920
they read the bios for nearly everyone

813
00:37:26,980 --> 00:37:24,380
but they forgot to read mine they did I

814
00:37:28,780 --> 00:37:26,990
didn't expecting it I like that one I

815
00:37:31,930 --> 00:37:28,790
work with Penn & Teller since the night

816
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:31,940
since 1990 I did two television show

817
00:37:35,140 --> 00:37:33,650
three television shows with them one was

818
00:37:49,980 --> 00:37:35,150
the last one was penn & teller [\h__\h]

819
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:52,870
and I did a show with them Penn & Teller

820
00:37:58,060 --> 00:37:55,130
simcity spectacular that was a variety

821
00:38:00,520 --> 00:37:58,070
show that we shot in vegas on FX was 24

822
00:38:02,740 --> 00:38:00,530
episodes and then i also did their NBC

823
00:38:04,540 --> 00:38:02,750
special back in nineteen ninety and a

824
00:38:05,770 --> 00:38:04,550
british television special with them and

825
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:05,780
I've done a lot of music for their live

826
00:38:10,570 --> 00:38:08,090
show okay so you're you're real tight

827
00:38:12,970 --> 00:38:10,580
with those two yeah I'm in the skeptic

828
00:38:14,830 --> 00:38:12,980
atheist world and all is he then do you

829
00:38:17,590 --> 00:38:14,840
are free thanks are you a member of the

830
00:38:19,690 --> 00:38:17,600
iig I'm not a member but I've done a ton

831
00:38:22,630 --> 00:38:19,700
of shows here and I know Jim honorary

832
00:38:25,750 --> 00:38:22,640
yeah exactly that's cool I've absolutely

833
00:38:28,180 --> 00:38:25,760
loved the songs that you played they

834
00:38:30,250 --> 00:38:28,190
were very and you're phenomenal singer

835
00:38:32,230 --> 00:38:30,260
by know you're very good thank you I've

836
00:38:34,150 --> 00:38:32,240
always amazing people who can both sing

837
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:34,160
while they play in your stomach and

838
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:36,050
patting your head at the same time yes

839
00:38:39,730 --> 00:38:37,970
takes practice but once you get it it's

840
00:38:42,670 --> 00:38:39,740
what you do I don't wanna be a skeptic

841
00:38:45,130 --> 00:38:42,680
music too i'm gonna eat your song yes

842
00:38:46,690 --> 00:38:45,140
okay yeah all right i'll look for you

843
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:46,700
there because i've been downloading a

844
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:48,650
lot of like tim minchin doesn't have

845
00:38:52,300 --> 00:38:50,810
Lester oh he's so good he's hella but

846
00:38:54,310 --> 00:38:52,310
I'd be happy to send you something okay

847
00:38:55,780 --> 00:38:54,320
thank you so much thank you so much for

848
00:38:59,020 --> 00:38:55,790
speaking of Z and I hope I can have you

849
00:39:10,750 --> 00:38:59,030
perform again you will put you my man

850
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:16,470
what could make a poet on a ride

851
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:21,359
what could make John Gotti give up

852
00:39:28,329 --> 00:39:23,350
yes

853
00:39:34,970 --> 00:39:33,670
jump without the greed looking for some

854
00:39:39,380 --> 00:39:34,980
children

855
00:39:45,750 --> 00:39:39,390
can be you may

856
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:54,010
you need some

857
00:39:54,020 --> 00:39:58,740
is he

858
00:40:03,490 --> 00:40:01,200
along

859
00:40:05,430 --> 00:40:03,500
be strong

860
00:40:13,799 --> 00:40:05,440
is another way

861
00:40:27,910 --> 00:40:18,109
what can change old enemies to friends

862
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:30,630
I with late

863
00:40:41,130 --> 00:40:35,770
red states love the blue and what might

864
00:40:43,250 --> 00:40:41,140
bake those mothers love the Jews the

865
00:40:48,290 --> 00:40:43,260
duck your voice

866
00:40:48,300 --> 00:40:57,290
to live in

867
00:40:57,300 --> 00:41:01,590
that's the key

868
00:41:07,870 --> 00:41:03,830
the mall

869
00:41:27,700 --> 00:41:16,130
me

870
00:41:27,710 --> 00:41:39,170
sister

871
00:41:39,180 --> 00:41:42,640
to live in

872
00:41:42,650 --> 00:41:47,340
oh honey

873
00:41:47,350 --> 00:41:54,400
you

874
00:41:54,410 --> 00:42:03,960
he stopped

875
00:42:03,970 --> 00:42:09,270
me

876
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:16,450
that's the deal

877
00:42:16,460 --> 00:42:37,730
wrong

878
00:42:37,740 --> 00:43:12,259
Oh

879
00:43:18,479 --> 00:43:15,630
I'm courses hello an ally Dawson to her

880
00:43:20,039 --> 00:43:18,489
that the skeptics on podcasts roasted

881
00:43:22,140 --> 00:43:20,049
year this is alvin dodge Manannan

882
00:43:24,660 --> 00:43:22,150
skeptic a fab and kept the vital

883
00:43:29,519 --> 00:43:24,670
information Oberon's on the skeptic a

884
00:43:33,630 --> 00:43:29,529
magazine reserved vvv point gavey OOP a

885
00:43:37,049 --> 00:43:33,640
punk rock hv dejala baby be pumped heave

886
00:43:55,370 --> 00:43:37,059
a rupee Paul talk on tons of it say on

887
00:44:00,750 --> 00:43:58,740
wow that was a really great australian

888
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:00,760
skeptics dinner talk postie lindley

889
00:44:05,220 --> 00:44:02,890
hello how are you Richard I'm good last

890
00:44:07,079 --> 00:44:05,230
time the skeptic zone heard from you I

891
00:44:08,700 --> 00:44:07,089
was in Las Vegas you had a little chat

892
00:44:13,349 --> 00:44:08,710
to mean up yes definitely it was a good

893
00:44:14,849 --> 00:44:13,359
time good time drinking in the bar it

894
00:44:17,130 --> 00:44:14,859
always is not that we're always drinking

895
00:44:19,710 --> 00:44:17,140
at the bar of course no and I was for

896
00:44:22,069 --> 00:44:19,720
you or now you're up here at we in

897
00:44:26,190 --> 00:44:22,079
Sydney enough we just had a wonderful

898
00:44:28,230 --> 00:44:26,200
skeptics dinner talk with Tori Shepherd

899
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:28,240
all the way from South Australia which

900
00:44:32,670 --> 00:44:29,890
we all enjoyed her talk about how the

901
00:44:34,470 --> 00:44:32,680
media look at back stories and all this

902
00:44:36,450 --> 00:44:34,480
sort of thing and what a champion of

903
00:44:39,270 --> 00:44:36,460
skepticism she turned out that is right

904
00:44:41,190 --> 00:44:39,280
definitely great o his'n and a lot more

905
00:44:43,410 --> 00:44:41,200
drinks you're more drinks in some real

906
00:44:46,740 --> 00:44:43,420
live sound effects here we go it's not

907
00:44:47,910 --> 00:44:46,750
like a bus announcement it's not but

908
00:44:51,359 --> 00:44:47,920
it's the next best thing right it's

909
00:44:53,220 --> 00:44:51,369
glasses cool now that was fantastic it

910
00:44:54,750 --> 00:44:53,230
was really nice to hear a talk but let

911
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:54,760
me talk to you now year on the

912
00:44:57,930 --> 00:44:56,290
organizing subcommittee for the

913
00:44:59,730 --> 00:44:57,940
melbourne convention we keep raving

914
00:45:01,589 --> 00:44:59,740
about this great convention coming up to

915
00:45:05,910 --> 00:45:01,599
our listeners i am and it's going to be

916
00:45:07,410 --> 00:45:05,920
great it's gonna be healthy whoa it's

917
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:07,420
going to be great it's gonna be held at

918
00:45:13,309 --> 00:45:09,490
the spot the spot theater at the

919
00:45:16,829 --> 00:45:13,319
Melbourne Uni on the thirtieth of

920
00:45:19,170 --> 00:45:16,839
November to sunday december the second

921
00:45:20,910 --> 00:45:19,180
and we're going to have james randi of

922
00:45:24,839 --> 00:45:20,920
course he's going to be amazing like the

923
00:45:27,630 --> 00:45:24,849
Oasis we've got rebecca watson DJ Grothe

924
00:45:29,910 --> 00:45:27,640
yeah we've also got Brian Thompson who

925
00:45:32,210 --> 00:45:29,920
has millions of me into podcasts he's

926
00:45:34,700 --> 00:45:32,220
got quit it

927
00:45:36,980 --> 00:45:34,710
Khan Shh I'll think of the name later

928
00:45:38,510 --> 00:45:36,990
but he's got plenty of podcasts listen

929
00:45:41,030 --> 00:45:38,520
to him he's great and then we've got

930
00:45:42,770 --> 00:45:41,040
stuff like adam van langenberg yeah the

931
00:45:44,330 --> 00:45:42,780
skeptical teacher yes and was on last

932
00:45:46,339 --> 00:45:44,340
week's episode what a great guy here

933
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:46,349
he's great he's great master teacher and

934
00:45:50,390 --> 00:45:48,330
he's actually going to be following

935
00:45:53,060 --> 00:45:50,400
james randi as the second disperse

936
00:45:57,109 --> 00:45:53,070
really care of the day letting us in on

937
00:45:59,180 --> 00:45:57,119
a secret of the of the scheduling a very

938
00:46:02,180 --> 00:45:59,190
nervous boy you'll be actually I'd say

939
00:46:04,130 --> 00:46:02,190
after after being introduced by james

940
00:46:05,540 --> 00:46:04,140
randi now if you talk to a room full of

941
00:46:07,910 --> 00:46:05,550
skeptical students she can't be too

942
00:46:11,630 --> 00:46:07,920
nervous yeah so we've also got you me

943
00:46:14,900 --> 00:46:11,640
we've got a doctor a chief doctor age oh

944
00:46:16,940 --> 00:46:14,910
my god Chrissy Wilson we've got home yes

945
00:46:17,990 --> 00:46:16,950
he wasn't I can't wait edit she's she's

946
00:46:19,700 --> 00:46:18,000
fantastic she's one of the best

947
00:46:22,370 --> 00:46:19,710
skeptical speakers out we've got Ken

948
00:46:25,609 --> 00:46:22,380
Harvey who is choice magazine consumer

949
00:46:26,839 --> 00:46:25,619
of the year and has it been organizing

950
00:46:28,970 --> 00:46:26,849
all this because I know what it's like

951
00:46:31,609 --> 00:46:28,980
to organize the convention it's pretty

952
00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:31,619
full-on it's full-on i'm doing a lot

953
00:46:35,930 --> 00:46:34,050
with the interweb ease so maybe movies

954
00:46:38,240 --> 00:46:35,940
interweb ease they're mainly facebook

955
00:46:39,859 --> 00:46:38,250
posting up pictures and getting twitter

956
00:46:42,050 --> 00:46:39,869
getting it out there that sort of thing

957
00:46:45,740 --> 00:46:42,060
i have any person who Twitter's for that

958
00:46:47,060 --> 00:46:45,750
yes oh I didn't know that right and

959
00:46:51,859 --> 00:46:47,070
what's the Twitter everybody should be

960
00:46:54,740 --> 00:46:51,869
following I'll skip con aus hey EPT con

961
00:46:57,920 --> 00:46:54,750
wrong something like that is not not

962
00:47:01,359 --> 00:46:57,930
Ozzie no not only not I not only it

963
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:01,369
sounds like a UN and we've also got

964
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:04,050
Cameron man from friends of science of

965
00:47:07,790 --> 00:47:06,330
Medicine cool Meredith joy which I only

966
00:47:10,490 --> 00:47:07,800
just found out she's motorbike rider

967
00:47:12,170 --> 00:47:10,500
she's used to be a motorbike instructor

968
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:12,180
woman off their own home it should be

969
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:14,010
because you yellow Riding your motorbike

970
00:47:17,329 --> 00:47:15,690
definitely and I'm going to ride to

971
00:47:21,140 --> 00:47:17,339
Canberra in a couple of weeks to see Tim

972
00:47:24,079 --> 00:47:21,150
Ferguson do is show about ms so that'll

973
00:47:26,510 --> 00:47:24,089
be right and we also have linked Kelly

974
00:47:29,089 --> 00:47:26,520
who is awesome Oh white almond she's

975
00:47:30,890 --> 00:47:29,099
fantastic issue is no phobic she's the

976
00:47:33,020 --> 00:47:30,900
she she she used to have terrible

977
00:47:35,089 --> 00:47:33,030
arachnophobia and then she wrote books

978
00:47:37,220 --> 00:47:35,099
about spiders now she loves me but she's

979
00:47:39,260 --> 00:47:37,230
the best cold reader in the best okay

980
00:47:40,690 --> 00:47:39,270
I've seen a duet for so many years now

981
00:47:42,940 --> 00:47:40,700
she's Santa readings

982
00:47:45,339 --> 00:47:42,950
to get into two smaller than [\h__\h] Tara

983
00:47:48,060 --> 00:47:45,349
Mansi was a torrent or a man she made up

984
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:48,070
her own balls bull magic will met you

985
00:47:52,390 --> 00:47:50,810
I've seen them Kelly do cold readings

986
00:47:53,980 --> 00:47:52,400
which brings people to tears and then

987
00:47:55,210 --> 00:47:53,990
she stops and sits note so I'll stop now

988
00:47:57,190 --> 00:47:55,220
because I can see you're getting carried

989
00:47:59,290 --> 00:47:57,200
away but the thing about being Kelly is

990
00:48:01,270 --> 00:47:59,300
she'll tell the person beforehand that

991
00:48:04,030 --> 00:48:01,280
what she's about to do is fake it right

992
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:04,040
in psychology and people still believe

993
00:48:08,109 --> 00:48:06,530
it believe it it's young it's just even

994
00:48:11,260 --> 00:48:08,119
when you we were talking about it

995
00:48:13,329 --> 00:48:11,270
recently where this sort of had a hug

996
00:48:16,420 --> 00:48:13,339
something happened to you that might be

997
00:48:18,220 --> 00:48:16,430
a bit of a heartbreak and the first

998
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:18,230
thing you think about is maybe going and

999
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:21,050
seeing a psychic getting a tarot reading

1000
00:48:24,940 --> 00:48:22,970
because you think as a skeptic you still

1001
00:48:27,069 --> 00:48:24,950
think what the hell but then you might

1002
00:48:28,750 --> 00:48:27,079
think no maybe this psychic might tell

1003
00:48:30,819 --> 00:48:28,760
me then maybe you just need to talk to

1004
00:48:35,319 --> 00:48:30,829
Jay and maybe just go down the pub and

1005
00:48:36,579 --> 00:48:35,329
never drink meet up with me not that's

1006
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:36,589
what you should do it everybody should

1007
00:48:39,069 --> 00:48:37,970
meet up with my everyone [\h__\h] we're

1008
00:48:40,599 --> 00:48:39,079
actually going to try and get mine out

1009
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:40,609
there to it well if that all works out

1010
00:48:45,730 --> 00:48:42,890
that defenders any they all come down

1011
00:48:47,620 --> 00:48:45,740
yeah I think that will connect you yes

1012
00:48:49,210 --> 00:48:47,630
definitely we will bung him in a plane

1013
00:48:52,900 --> 00:48:49,220
and then when he wakes up your windmill

1014
00:48:55,569 --> 00:48:52,910
the idea well yeah definitely buy a

1015
00:48:57,490 --> 00:48:55,579
ticket stairs not many left no we're

1016
00:48:59,140 --> 00:48:57,500
under a hundred left and by the time the

1017
00:49:01,960 --> 00:48:59,150
podcast goes out it could be even fewer

1018
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:01,970
even fewer definitely exam must come and

1019
00:49:06,910 --> 00:49:04,490
see James Randi he is also is a dinner

1020
00:49:09,099 --> 00:49:06,920
definitely come so much look forward to

1021
00:49:10,839 --> 00:49:09,109
linear I can't wait I'm counting the

1022
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:10,849
days to complete I always have a great

1023
00:49:14,650 --> 00:49:12,650
time at australian skeptical yeah it'll

1024
00:49:16,180 --> 00:49:14,660
be a great fun the only thing i was devo

1025
00:49:18,609 --> 00:49:16,190
is playing on the same night as the

1026
00:49:20,410 --> 00:49:18,619
opening of the convention so i can't

1027
00:49:22,720 --> 00:49:20,420
even go and see devo cuz i've got to be

1028
00:49:24,940 --> 00:49:22,730
at the convention the sacrifices you

1029
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:24,950
make yeah the sacrifice you made plus

1030
00:49:28,870 --> 00:49:27,290
you little bit conventions always too

1031
00:49:30,430 --> 00:49:28,880
good so it's always too gay well thank

1032
00:49:32,559 --> 00:49:30,440
you for coming up all the way to city to

1033
00:49:35,079 --> 00:49:32,569
see us it's really fantastic and we'll

1034
00:49:36,790 --> 00:49:35,089
be seeing you soon and Melvin yes and I

1035
00:49:58,569 --> 00:49:36,800
might go and have another leisure beer

1036
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:01,519
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1037
00:50:07,009 --> 00:50:04,650
zone on next week's show I'm going to

1038
00:50:10,069 --> 00:50:07,019
dig through the archives and finds maybe

1039
00:50:12,559 --> 00:50:10,079
one or two more interviews that Maynard

1040
00:50:13,849 --> 00:50:12,569
was doing it damn Las Vegas I tell you

1041
00:50:14,900 --> 00:50:13,859
what folks this has been going on for

1042
00:50:18,709 --> 00:50:14,910
months and months and months and months

1043
00:50:22,069 --> 00:50:18,719
it just gives you some idea some clue as

1044
00:50:24,709 --> 00:50:22,079
to how hard Maynard was working at 10

1045
00:50:27,259 --> 00:50:24,719
getting interviews it's just just

1046
00:50:29,539 --> 00:50:27,269
amazing I know try and squeeze in a

1047
00:50:31,309 --> 00:50:29,549
think tank see if I can get the gang the

1048
00:50:34,189 --> 00:50:31,319
band back together for a think tank see

1049
00:50:35,959 --> 00:50:34,199
if I can organize that and well who

1050
00:50:37,729 --> 00:50:35,969
knows what will be on next week's show

1051
00:50:40,279 --> 00:50:37,739
that's a bit of the thing about the

1052
00:50:42,589 --> 00:50:40,289
skeptic zone it's always a surprise so

1053
00:50:44,169 --> 00:50:42,599
it's a surprise to me I can tell you but

1054
00:50:51,410 --> 00:50:44,179
under then this is Richard Saunders

1055
00:50:54,799 --> 00:50:51,420
signing off from Sydney Australia you've

1056
00:50:59,390 --> 00:50:54,809
been listening to the skeptic zone visit

1057
00:51:01,880 --> 00:50:59,400
our website at www skeptics on TV for